The Ladder Theory (Theory on male/female relationships)

[calven]

Very crude site but it honestly has some validity in the relationships i have witnessed...

Its humorous if nothing else...

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

[Lucas Scott]

Good link Cal I think many of his assertions are on target!

[tokyopua]

I am a relative newbie when it comes to trading stocks, but relationships and women I know something about 

I have to say that at least to me this site "sounds" right but much of it is actually wrong.  The author is more of a theorist and "keyboard jockey" than an actual practicioner of the seduction arts, IMO. 

In particular, his analysis of the plain guy with a hot woman, and the biker vs. rich guy was really wrong.  In the first case he asked the wrong question (i.e. "yes, but can he get another such woman"?), when he should have been asking "How can I too have such a woman even if I might be plain in certain areas" and in the second case he doesnt understand evolutionary psychology.

Sorry to be contrarian, but I am willing to explain further if anyone cares or is interested.

[calven]

I have no idea about the dynamics behind this stuff. I just found his comments quite ammusing...especially the criticisms section. While some aspects of his theory are true I mainly just used the site for a nice laugh 

Its meant to entertain more than anything IMO

[Lucas Scott]

Sorry to be contrarian, but I am willing to explain further if anyone cares or is interested.

OK tokyo - you peaked my curiousity. Please explain further.

[tokyopua]

Sorry to be contrarian, but I am willing to explain further if anyone cares or is interested.

OK tokyo - you peaked my curiousity. Please explain further.

OK, I will admit I only skimmed the site because it seemed to me his basic premise was that all women want is a rich guy.  Here was one such passage:

"Topping out the Ladder:
Have you ever seen a guy that was not particularly attractive, rich or muscled yet was with a lovely woman? For most guys the most common reaction is envy, something like "Hey I'm not all that muscled, attractive or rich either. Why can't I be f`@*;ng a girl like that?" We at intellectual whores used to feel this way about "stump factor" as well. But then ladder theory was discovered and we realized that it was more rational to pity this man.

Ladder theory tells us that the purpose of life is to move up the ladder. When their relationship ends, he will probably never be able to get another woman as good as the one he is with right now -- the rest of his life he'll likely be striving in vain. In effect, he's doomed the whole rest of his life to meaninglessness unless he marries this girl. This of course is just trading one type of doom for another."

I bolded the question and obscured the expletive in respect of 3SOF (not because I dont speak like that myself, lol), because it is the wrong question to ask.  As Tony Robbins says, "To get the right answer, you must ask the right question".  Asking "why cant I" leads to negative answers because it is phrased negatively. The average guy answers this questions generically.  "Well, because I am only 5'6", not good looking, and I dont have lots of money or luck like that guy" and its over. 

Instead its productive to ask questions like "what did he do despite his lack of X, Y, and Z that allowed him to attract such an amazing woman?  Was there a process to it that could be repeated?  What things could I do to attract such a woman?"  Phrase the question in the positive to search for positive answers you may not have thought were there.  This is a key tenet of NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programing).

I have been asking the second type question for the last 6 years, and found that just like a man of small stature can beat a larger opponent in combat using martial arts, so can a man who has less money than another win the woman of his dreams using the seduction arts.  I dont argue that in general the suppositions of that site were true, but I would say that all other things being equal, the richer better looking man wins, but learning the seduction arts makes things unequal in favor of the seducer.

Now, as for the idea that women date bikers because there is a dearth of rich men, this is ludicrous.  Women do in general have some amount of instinctual need for a "protector", this is understood in evolutional psychology.  However, being rich is not the only way that they can feel that need is being met.  The bad boy biker exhibits power in a different, more immediate visceral form that very few rich men could possibly duplicate.  I know bikers who have such psychological control over their women that Donald Trump himself could swoop down from the skies in a golden helicopter to woo their women (purposely plural, one of them is a king of threesomes) and their women would laugh in his face.

Further, the man who has only riches is often cuckholded by the badboy biker type.  Human female evolution has adapted a lover vs. provider reproductive strategy (mostly unconcoius) that has been proven by paternity tests on humans.  Many studies suggest that between 10 and 20% of people in certain areas of Britain for example are not the children of who they think their fathers are.  Basically the strategy for women is to chose a man of "means" to make sure material needs are taken care of and her offspring are cared for, but she will often sneak away to have a child with a male with superior genes.  Thus the former is the provider, the latter is the lover.  This is reality (I am not saying all women do this of course, but often its more for lack of opportunity and fear of reprocussions than anything else), and it is repeated all throught the rest of the animal kingdom as well.

So a biker often appears as a good lover, the rich guy as the good provider.  If you want to have your mind blown along these lines, read a book called "sperm wars".  Then you will see that perhaps the Ladder guy should have been asking us to feel sorry for the average rich guy.

I make reference to the "average rich guy" a lot because these days many guys are well off due to intellectual pursuits etc. but work hard and have no time to interact with women and learn the most important ways to behave.  I have had millionaires pay me $100/hr to give them advice on women, for precisely these kind of reasons.  Yes, many can buy women, but that becomes unsatisfactory in many respects really quick.  Either they want a real relationship where the woman wants them for all their qualities, or for the quick sex side of things they wish that they could get women without paying for the sex.

For my part, I now know how to be the "lover" for almost any woman I desire, and the "provider" should I want a longer term relationship.  I am not rich (yet, though I will be :-), I am decent looking but I used to be horribly shy and super skinny with no confidence.  I have studied every technique under the sun and can tell you with certainty that in many cases the guy who is average and knows them is better off.

In any case, the key is to attain as many desireable traits as you can to attract women, including money if possible.  But since most guys arent fortunate to find 3SOF, or start a succesful company etc., at least they can ask the right questions, and find the right answers.

[calven]

What the website basically sums up is a set in stone theory of "natural selection"

A couple of disagreements I have with the site -
The author states men and women cannot be friends. I am friends with my female and male cousins etc for example. How does the author account for this??

Second issue (among many)
In rare cases where a spouse becomes handicapped or has a disease that disables them physically or mentally, a lot of the time couples stay solely together intimately and emotionally. This would also go against the ladder theory based on looks...

To believe in what this author has to say is agreeing that humans are just another animal...



As for your comments above I can only say one thing .... (APPLAUD!)

[Lucas Scott]

Tokyo - thank you for the elaboration. Where does one learn the seduction arts?

For my part, I now know how to be the "lover" for almost any woman I desire

Me too   Ok maybe not

[B_Dub]

  Where does Jane and Connie live?       

[tokyopua]

Tokyo - thank you for the elaboration. Where does one learn the seduction arts?

For my part, I now know how to be the "lover" for almost any woman I desire

Me too   Ok maybe not

Mail me offline at my screen name here plus yahoo.com, and I will give you some links of good sites and resources.

[tokyopua]

What the website basically sums up is a set in stone theory of "natural selection"

A couple of disagreements I have with the site -
The author states men and women cannot be friends. I am friends with my female and male cousins etc for example. How does the author account for this??

Second issue (among many)
In rare cases where a spouse becomes handicapped or has a disease that disables them physically or mentally, a lot of the time couples stay solely together intimately and emotionally. This would also go against the ladder theory based on looks...

To believe in what this author has to say is agreeing that humans are just another animal...



As for your comments above I can only say one thing .... (APPLAUD!)

Yeah, I agree about the friends thing.  I also have platonic female friends, one of who is really attractive and its more due to my choice that things havent gotten physical.

There is a lot to be learned about our animal links, but I agree we have transcended animals.

As for natural selection, there is much to be learned, but with humans and seduction, then we want to know about "sexual selection" which was also something Darwin started but was not widely publicized in his day because it gave too much power in evolution to females.  But in fact sexual selection is a much more fast acting and powerful form of evolution than natural selection.  And in some cases it leads to amazingly fast evolution called "runaway sexual selection".  The peacocks tail was produced by such evolution, for example. 

A good book on this subject is called "The Mating Mind" by Miller, which theorizes compellingly that language and art and music were evolved to aid in attracting the opposite sex , and that indeed our large brains were evolved at the speed they evolved in order to learn how to do that.